The Gaming Den

Josh_Kablack wrote:THIS IS WHY YOU PEOPLE SHOULD BE ARGUING ABOUT CRICKET INSTEAD:

Chamomile wrote:Well, then, I'm going to mention that American Football has the most terrible ratio of action to non-action in any sport I've ever seen. Even fencing manages about 1:1 or 1:2, Football's trailing at 1:3 or worse.

tzor wrote:

Josh_Kablack wrote:THIS IS WHY YOU PEOPLE SHOULD BE ARGUING ABOUT CRICKET INSTEAD:

But I don't know CRICKET. It's a nice game and everything but aside from "they bowl the ball; you keep it from knocking the wickets down and if you hit well you run back and forth" I haven't a clue.

Now American FOOTBALL. That I know. There's definitely cinematic combat in American FOOTBALL. I mean there's the Hail Mary Play and the Statue of Liberty Play and the Qarterback Sneak and ...

hogarth wrote:

fectin wrote:It doesn't matter whether they say always. You still fall into one of those options.

Are you saying that having even an inkling of what the game suggests is a reasonable amount of damage would ruin your storytelling ability? Are you a brain-damaged moron?

Having average benchmarks is a good thing, in the sense that it helps you "do the math" (people around here are always complaining that game designers don't "do the math").

Option 3 may make you feel better because it gives the illusion that you are staying within the rules of the game, but it's not better than simply not using the benchmarks at all because players still have no way to judge new threats.

Psychic Robot wrote:

Option 3 may make you feel better because it gives the illusion that you are staying within the rules of the game, but it's not better than simply not using the benchmarks at all because players still have no way to judge new threats.

how can you possibly argue this. saying damage at this level should do 3d6 damage and the DM saying "well, I want it to be a stronger attack, so it will do 3d8" is completely different from the DM just saying "well, I guess the attack does 3d8 damage"

K wrote:Basically, these rules are an artifact of video game logic. People who love video games get super nervous when asymmetric force might be applied to things while people who play RPGs get uncomfortable when it can't. RPG players are used to coming up with crazy schemes where they set off rockfalls to smash armies of orcs where video game players can't see beyond hack and slash.

jadagul wrote:Chamomile: I don't think he's getting it confused at all. In rough outline (hey, I only lived in England for a year) the bowler bowls a ball at the batsman, and the batsman (among other things) needs to make sure that the ball doesn't hit the wicket he's standing in front of. If it does hit the wicket than the top part comes off; the phrase "sticky wicket" comes from defending teams doctoring the wicket so you can't tell the bowler's hit it.

K wrote:Now, you keep trying to say that Option 3 is not only the actual method that 4e uses, but that it is somehow a good thing. You are wrong.

James Wyatt wrote:Something amazing happened one time I was playing D&D with my 9-year-old son. When we finished an encounter, my son took over. He decided that he was going to search around one of the statues in the room, that he was going to get hit by a trap (an arrow would shoot out at the statue), and that he’d find a treasure there.
Hey, wait a minute. I thought I was the DM!
That was my first reaction. But I bit my tongue. I rolled damage for the trap, and I let him have his treasure. (I determined what it was—I wasn’t about to relinquish that much control.)
He never enjoyed the game more.
I learned the most important lesson about D&D that day. I remembered that this is a game about imagination, about coming together to tell a story as a group. I learned that the players have a right to participate in telling that story—after all, they’re playing the protagonists!
—James Wyatt

Damage by Level
Normal Damage Expressions
Level Low Medium High
1st–3rd 1d6 + 3 1d10 + 3 2d6 + 3
4th–6th 1d6 + 4 1d10 + 4 2d8 + 4
7th–9th 1d8 + 5 2d6 + 5 2d8 + 5
10th–12th 1d8 + 5 2d6 + 5 3d6 + 5
13th–15th 1d10 + 6 2d8 + 6 3d6 + 6
16th–18th 1d10 + 7 2d8 + 7 3d8 + 7
19th–21st 2d6 + 7 3d6 + 8 3d8 + 7
22nd–24th 2d6 + 8 3d6 + 8 4d6 + 8
25th–27th 2d8 + 9 3d8 + 9 4d6 + 9
28th–30th 2d8 + 10 3d8 + 10 4d8 + 10

DMG, page 184 wrote:Set Damage for Attacks: Use the Damage by Level table to set damage for the monster’s attacks. Most at-will attacks should use the medium normal damage shown on the table. For attacks against multiple targets, the melee attacks of artillery monsters, and controller attacks that also include significant control functions, use the low normal damage column. For attacks that have low accuracy (including brute attacks) and the high-damage attacks of lurker monsters, use the high normal damage column. Use the limited damage expressions for powers the monster can use only once or twice a fight—powers that have encounter recharge or recharge rolls.

DMG wrote:For inspiration, check the powers for creatures in the Monster Manual. That book has a list of monsters by level and role, so you can quickly look up other creatures that are similar to your new monster. Then either choose some powers that seem right, modifying them as needed, or create new ones of comparable effect.

page 42 wrote:Actions the Rules Don’t Cover

Your presence as the Dungeon Master is what makes
D&D such a great game. You make it possible for the
players to try anything they can imagine. That means
it’s your job to resolve unusual actions when the players
try them.
Use the “DM’s Best Friend”: This simple guideline
helps you adjudicate any unusual situation: An especially
favorable circumstance gives a +2 bonus to a check
or an attack roll (or it gives combat advantage). A particularly
unfavorable circumstance gives a –2 penalty.
Cast the Action as a Check: If a character tries
an action that might fail, use a check to resolve it. To
do that, you need to know what kind of check it is and
what the DC is.
Attacks: If the action is essentially an attack, use an
attack roll. It might involve a weapon and target AC, or
it might just be a Strength or Dexterity check against
any defense. For an attack, use the appropriate defense
of the target. Use an opposed check for anything that
involves a contest between two creatures.
Other Checks: If the action is related to a skill (Acrobatics
and Athletics cover a lot of the stunts characters
try in combat), use that check. If it is not an obvious
skill or attack roll, use an ability check. Consult the
Difficulty Class and Damage by Level table below,
and set the DC according to whether you think the
task should be easy, hard, or somewhere in between. A
quick rule of thumb is to start with a DC of 10 (easy),
15 (moderate), or 20 (hard) and add one-half the character’s
level.
Setting Improvised Damage: Sometimes you
need to set damage for something not covered in the
rules—a character stumbles into the campfire or falls
into a vat of acid, for example. Choose a column on
the Difficulty Class and Damage table based on the
severity of the effect. Use a normal damage expression
for something that might make an attack round
after round, or something that’s relatively minor.
These numbers are comparable to a monster’s at-will
attack. Use a limited damage expression, comparable
to a monster’s special powers, for one-time damaging
effects or massive damage.

Example: Shiera the 8th-level rogue wants to try
the classic swashbuckling move of swinging on a
chandelier and kicking an ogre in the chest on her
way down to the ground, hoping to push the ogre into
the brazier of burning coals behind it. An Acrobatics
check seems reasonable.
This sort of action is exactly the kind of thinking
you want to encourage, so you pick an easy DC: The
table says DC 15, but it’s a skill check, so make it DC
20. If she makes that check, she gets a hold on the
chandelier and swings to the ogre.
Then comes the kicking. She’s more interested in
the push than in dealing any damage with the kick
itself, so have her make a Strength attack against the
ogre’s Fortitude. If she pulls it off, let her push the ogre
1 square and into the brazier, and find an appropriate
damage number.
Use a normal damage expression from the table,
because once the characters see this trick work they’ll
try anything they can to keep pushing the ogres into
the brazier. You can safely use the high value, though—
2d8 + 5 fire damage. If Shiera had used a 7th-level
encounter power and Sneak Attack, she might have
dealt 4d6 (plus her Dexterity modifier), so you’re not
giving away too much with this damage.

DQ wrote:I'm not sure what the issue is.

DMG wrote:This sort of action is exactly the kind of thinking you want to encourage, so you pick an easy DC: The table says DC 15, but it’s a skill check, so make it DC 20.

FrankTrollman wrote:

DQ wrote:I'm not sure what the issue is.

The issue is pretty much this:

DMG wrote:This sort of action is exactly the kind of thinking you want to encourage, so you pick an easy DC: The table says DC 15, but it’s a skill check, so make it DC 20.

"The table" is the skills difficulty table, which is Player Character Level Based. So you swing on a chandelier and this action gets harder as you level up. Even with the same action.

It offends a lot of people. And a lot of 4rries come and claim it doesn't say that, when it blatantly blatantly does.

-Username17

FrankTrollman wrote:"The table" is the skills difficulty table, which is Player Character Level Based. So you swing on a chandelier and this action gets harder as you level up. Even with the same action.

It offends a lot of people. And a lot of 4rries come and claim it doesn't say that, when it blatantly blatantly does.

-Username17

Chamomile wrote:Well, then, I'm going to mention that American Football has the most terrible ratio of action to non-action in any sport I've ever seen. Even fencing manages about 1:1 or 1:2, Football's trailing at 1:3 or worse.

tzor wrote:Still it is one game where you see the most "options" on any given situation. The defense can set up in any number of configurations moving people forward or backwards as they think necessary. They can then perform any number of actions in response; rushing the quarterback (the sack) to double teaming the receivers.

Fuchs wrote:
And the same brazier will do more damage once you push a higher-level monster into it as a higher-level character. Even the brazier levels with you!

Maxus wrote:

Fuchs wrote:
And the same brazier will do more damage once you push a higher-level monster into it as a higher-level character. Even the brazier levels with you!

So at level 25, the desk I pick up to club someone is made of mahogany from Melchior 7, where the trees are 300 feet tall and breathe fair and it was cut and polished in the ancient blood rituals of the Melchior people?

Fuchs wrote:And the same brazier will do more damage once you push a higher-level monster into it as a higher-level character. Even the brazier levels with you!

Stubbazubba wrote:

Maxus wrote:

Fuchs wrote:
And the same brazier will do more damage once you push a higher-level monster into it as a higher-level character. Even the brazier levels with you!

So at level 25, the desk I pick up to club someone is made of mahogany from Melchior 7, where the trees are 300 feet tall and breathe fair and it was cut and polished in the ancient blood rituals of the Melchior people?

Also, it's a very fine material. Very expensive...mahogany.